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chris



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PostSubject: Religion in anarchy?   Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:58 pm

I dont know if this has been discussed before or not, but here I go.

Is there room for religion in an anarchy? I mean, religion is clearly not very anarchistic..

God
Prophets
Pope
Bishops
Priests
Regular Folks
(Using the catholic/Christian set up as its the one I know best)

In an anarchy we are all equal, but according to religion God is a supreme being thats better than all of us.

And if we were to start a revolution it would be extremely difficult to get everyone to denounce their God and religion, as this is something most people in the world holds above almost everything.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:13 pm

chris wrote:
I dont know if this has been discussed before or not, but here I go.

Is there room for religion in an anarchy? I mean, religion is clearly not very anarchistic..

God
Prophets
Pope
Bishops
Priests
Regular Folks
(Using the catholic/Christian set up as its the one I know best)

In an anarchy we are all equal, but according to religion God is a supreme being thats better than all of us.

And if we were to start a revolution it would be extremely difficult to get everyone to denounce their God and religion, as this is something most people in the world holds above almost everything.


Well. Ok. The hierarchy you mentioned is only in Catholicism. The Christian/Protestant equivalent looks a sort like this.
God-Father-Son-Holy Spirit
Everyone else

If jesus loves you, then he loves everyone equally.
As he decides to use his supreme power to break our mere human physics, therefore he is automatically above us all.

In my opinion, Religion is a deeply personal connection between you and god. I beleive churches are corrupt. Therefore, there really is an absence of hierarchy in religion.

Anarchy is a social/economic state, not a uniform religion that believes in the absence of such.
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chris



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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:59 pm

Thanks you Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:49 pm

Public Enemy wrote:
chris wrote:
I dont know if this has been discussed before or not, but here I go.

Is there room for religion in an anarchy? I mean, religion is clearly not very anarchistic..

God
Prophets
Pope
Bishops
Priests
Regular Folks
(Using the catholic/Christian set up as its the one I know best)

In an anarchy we are all equal, but according to religion God is a supreme being thats better than all of us.

And if we were to start a revolution it would be extremely difficult to get everyone to denounce their God and religion, as this is something most people in the world holds above almost everything.


I beleive churches are corrupt.
Can't disagree with that! Ya I believe there can be religion in Anarchy just you can have a church without a hierarchy(well if you insist you can but make sure noone has more power than you), I don't know how this will affect the Catholic religion but shouldn't affect others

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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:51 pm

I worship Chomsky

all hail !
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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:08 pm

There may not be RELIGION (the Catholic Church, the Protestant Sect, etc), but there will be SPIRITUALITY.

I find myself very spiritual, but not religious. For example, I follow many of Christ's teachings but I do not consider myself of the Christian religion. I don't worship anyone.

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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:17 pm

KenCat wrote:
There may not be RELIGION (the Catholic Church, the Protestant Sect, etc), but there will be SPIRITUALITY.

I find myself very spiritual, but not religious. For example, I follow many of Christ's teachings but I do not consider myself of the Christian religion. I don't worship anyone.
Exactly what I feel ever since I learned about the church incorporation I don't like going anymore

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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:26 pm

Killuminati wrote:
KenCat wrote:
There may not be RELIGION (the Catholic Church, the Protestant Sect, etc), but there will be SPIRITUALITY.

I find myself very spiritual, but not religious. For example, I follow many of Christ's teachings but I do not consider myself of the Christian religion. I don't worship anyone.
Exactly what I feel ever since I learned about the church incorporation I don't like going anymore

Amen. lol

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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:22 pm

i think there can definately be spirituality and religion, just not the kind we're used to. people are letting go of their religions. most people in my class are not religious, and they're basically all somewhat libertarian socialists. in the class i was in last year most people werent libertarians, but there were very few who were religious or even believed in god. this is spain im speaking of, and most of europe seems to be going in the same direction. even in Amerika atheists are taking the power back. right now they're being ignored by the media because of the elections, but soon they will come back out again.

i consider myself very spiritual, and in fact, i consider anarchism very spiritual as well, since it requires us to be connected to society and nature, and sort of "expand" our egos, so what we interpret as "I" is not only our body but also our society.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:41 pm

god0fmusic wrote:
i think there can definately be spirituality and religion, just not the kind we're used to. people are letting go of their religions. most people in my class are not religious, and they're basically all somewhat libertarian socialists. in the class i was in last year most people werent libertarians, but there were very few who were religious or even believed in god. this is spain im speaking of, and most of europe seems to be going in the same direction. even in Amerika atheists are taking the power back. right now they're being ignored by the media because of the elections, but soon they will come back out again.

i consider myself very spiritual, and in fact, i consider anarchism very spiritual as well, since it requires us to be connected to society and nature, and sort of "expand" our egos, so what we interpret as "I" is not only our body but also our society.

Yes, I consider anarchism very spiritual. However, I do not think it would inflate any of our egos -- anarchism holds the belief (in my opinion) that the ego is wrong.

Ego: "an inflated feeling of pride in your superiority to others". It WILL, however, make "I" not only one's body but also one's society.

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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:52 pm

KenCat wrote:
god0fmusic wrote:
i think there can definately be spirituality and religion, just not the kind we're used to. people are letting go of their religions. most people in my class are not religious, and they're basically all somewhat libertarian socialists. in the class i was in last year most people werent libertarians, but there were very few who were religious or even believed in god. this is spain im speaking of, and most of europe seems to be going in the same direction. even in Amerika atheists are taking the power back. right now they're being ignored by the media because of the elections, but soon they will come back out again.

i consider myself very spiritual, and in fact, i consider anarchism very spiritual as well, since it requires us to be connected to society and nature, and sort of "expand" our egos, so what we interpret as "I" is not only our body but also our society.

Yes, I consider anarchism very spiritual. However, I do not think it would inflate any of our egos -- anarchism holds the belief (in my opinion) that the ego is wrong.

Ego: "an inflated feeling of pride in your superiority to others". It WILL, however, make "I" not only one's body but also one's society.

well, i had a different definition of ego in mind, and thats the general sense of self, as in, what the mind interprets as "I". so if the mind interprets society as "I" instead of just the body, then you are doing what buddhists call "forgetting the self".
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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:23 pm

I think it's perfectly acceptable to have religion in an anarchistic system. Just because you believe in a religion doesn't mean you can't be an anarchist. Sure, many religions around the world have ranking systems, but that's not intended to denote social status, just your duties to your god.

I'll admit that I'm not too big a fan of religion...because I just can't look at a book with fantasy stories of immaculate powers and accept it as fact. I can believe that there is a higher power somewhere out there...because there's no scientific explanation for what drives us as sentient beings. There's no explanation for the soul...for what makes us believe what we choose to believe.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:40 pm

actually, my grandma is looking for a scientific explanation for the soul and god o.o;;

that said, ummm, people believing they have duties to higher beings....it smacks of hierarchy....not that you can't be religious and an anarchist - i would just say it reduces the chances, since its hard to consolidate the two concepts...at least in religions based on this idea, there are quite a lot of religions....

damn it, i'm seeing too much of both sides.

i'm gonna go with: its irrelevant.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:29 pm

A jealous lover of human liberty, deeming it the absolute condition of all that we admire and respect in humanity, I reverse the phrase of Voltaire, and say that, if God really existed, it would be necessary to abolish him. -mikhail bakunin

religion (in the western sense) is supreme authoritarianism and theres no room for it in anarchism.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:10 pm

Alek4a wrote:
A jealous lover of human liberty, deeming it the absolute condition of all that we admire and respect in humanity, I reverse the phrase of Voltaire, and say that, if God really existed, it would be necessary to abolish him. -mikhail bakunin

religion (in the western sense) is supreme authoritarianism and theres no room for it in anarchism.

It depends on what your definition of religion is.. A belief in a more powerful being that controls destiny? No room for that. But what about a set of spiritual beliefs?
For example, I consider my "church" (we don't call it that) very non-religious (and very spiritual). There is no centralized power or hierarchy, no priests, no sexism, no set of rules you have to follow, no "right" or "wrong" way, etc. Many atheists (myself included) attend.

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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:18 am

Well, yeah, you can argue church hierarchy is only present in Catholicism, but I could argue it's not just the organized-religion part of religion that is reactionary -- it's almost a direct defiance to basic Anarchist positions. We, as Anarchists, feel higher authority than the authority over oneself is unhealthy for society and it's people. People telepathically submit to a higher authority daily, through religion. Further, you could agree, especially if you were an Atheist, that religion is an effective form of class control, using the fear of God's wrath to keep people in line (see society's from around the beginning of civilization -- the Indian/Aryan caste system -- to now -- the United States of Amerika, one nation under God, etc.) . I don't understand how you could be anything but an Atheist while truly believing in Anarchism.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:31 pm

Spinner wrote:
Well, yeah, you can argue church hierarchy is only present in Catholicism, but I could argue it's not just the organized-religion part of religion that is reactionary -- it's almost a direct defiance to basic Anarchist positions. We, as Anarchists, feel higher authority than the authority over oneself is unhealthy for society and it's people. People telepathically submit to a higher authority daily, through religion. Further, you could agree, especially if you were an Atheist, that religion is an effective form of class control, using the fear of God's wrath to keep people in line (see society's from around the beginning of civilization -- the Indian/Aryan caste system -- to now -- the United States of Amerika, one nation under God, etc.) . I don't understand how you could be anything but an Atheist while truly believing in Anarchism.

While anarchism and atheism can be seen as intertwined or related, spirituality and anarchism can be as well. I myself am a spiritual atheist.

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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:31 pm

So you define spirituality and religiousness as different concepts? Can you explain?
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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:18 pm

Well I'm very religious and I think religion would work perfect with anarchism...considering christians and muslims and hindus and aitheists will just set up communities with people that have the same beliefs as them...I don't see how there will be many problem...most religious problems have land/money/resources backing it up like the problems in israel and U.S. occupation of Iraq is all about land and money...and maybe a little religious tension...

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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:39 am

Take the Indian Caste System. These people remained within their caste their whole lives, they would abide laws almost perfectly, etc. Why? They feared bad Karma. They feared God. Religion is an institution of authority over people, Anarchism is contradictory to this.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:50 am

Spinner wrote:
Take the Indian Caste System. These people remained within their caste their whole lives, they would abide laws almost perfectly, etc. Why? They feared bad Karma. They feared God. Religion is an institution of authority over people, Anarchism is contradictory to this.
some but not all...I've seen many vids about people from lower caste system trying to fight for equal rights and with the anarchism movement people will wake up to the idea that noone is born "higher" than someone else

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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:09 pm

Spinner wrote:
So you define spirituality and religiousness as different concepts? Can you explain?

Spirituality is finding one's inner path to awareness.. The inner revolution, the inner "god" (not God, but the force that moves everything), the inner "light", etc.
Religion is the thought that by worshiping a God in a CERTAIN way, you will achieve spirituality.

I worship no one, yet I attempt to find answers to both inner and outer questions. My influences include Unitarianism, Buddhism, Quakerism (an anarchist religion) and a few other religions.

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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:19 pm

Cheveyo wrote:
Spinner wrote:
So you define spirituality and religiousness as different concepts? Can you explain?

Spirituality is finding one's inner path to awareness.. The inner revolution, the inner "god" (not God, but the force that moves everything), the inner "light", etc.
Religion is the thought that by worshiping a God in a CERTAIN way, you will achieve spirituality.

I worship no one, yet I attempt to find answers to both inner and outer questions. My influences include Unitarianism, Buddhism, Quakerism (an anarchist religion) and a few other religions.
isn't that kind of like a Confucianisms concept because they believe in exactly what you said and no god

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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:15 am

I believe there is room for religion in Anarchy. I'm a follower of Asatru myself. For those unfamiliar with Asatru it is a pagan religion that the Norsemen used to follow.

We do have gods and granted that strays a little from Anarchist ideals but there is no worship as such involved. I wear my Mjolnir to show my faith in the Aesir but unlike some religions they do not control me in any sense of the word. We do not have churches or any associated hierarchy. We're all equal, including women. A strong sense of honour is highly encouraged as well.

Sorry that this is quite broken up and doesn't read all that well but I never have been great at explaining what I mean.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion in anarchy?   Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:59 pm

I'm not really a fan of religion. In fact I don't believe it exists at all. What people call religion is merely an ideology like any other, sort of semiotic gang mentality, like fans of a certain type of music, followers. People who don't discuss things but merely want to force their beliefs onto you. I see anarchy as more open-discussion rather than being told you are a sinner. Anarchy, if I am not wrong, is more relaxed.
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