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PostSubject: What would you classify Obama as   Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:40 pm

Honestly I still can't figure out what on the political spectrum I would classify Obama as he is always shifting personaly I always classified him as a social democrat(the ones in germany not the new ones) we all know how the democrats were used to control the populists in the 19th century...so I know for a fact Obama will win but I don't even know what to call him otehr than a snake lol

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PostSubject: Re: What would you classify Obama as   Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:50 pm

A neoliberal capitalist or a conservative Democrat. Globally, he's very conservative. In the US, a moderate.

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PostSubject: Re: What would you classify Obama as   Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:38 am

I would say black... ^.-
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PostSubject: Re: What would you classify Obama as   Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:25 pm

chris wrote:
I would say black... ^.-

Ah, but how do you classify black? Skin color? Culture? Heritage?

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PostSubject: Re: What would you classify Obama as   Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:42 pm

Cheveyo wrote:
chris wrote:
I would say black... ^.-

Ah, but how do you classify black? Skin color? Culture? Heritage?
opposite of white Smile

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PostSubject: Re: What would you classify Obama as   Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:13 pm

Isaiah wrote:
Cheveyo wrote:
chris wrote:
I would say black... ^.-

Ah, but how do you classify black? Skin color? Culture? Heritage?
opposite of white Smile

What do you classify white as!? ;]
And I swear, if you say "opposite of black"... >:[

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PostSubject: Re: What would you classify Obama as   Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:32 pm

Cheveyo wrote:
Isaiah wrote:
Cheveyo wrote:
chris wrote:
I would say black... ^.-

Ah, but how do you classify black? Skin color? Culture? Heritage?
opposite of white Smile

What do you classify white as!? ;]
And I swear, if you say "opposite of black"... >:[
opposite of.....night Twisted Evil

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PostSubject: Re: What would you classify Obama as   Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:44 pm

Isaiah wrote:
Cheveyo wrote:
Isaiah wrote:
Cheveyo wrote:
chris wrote:
I would say black... ^.-

Ah, but how do you classify black? Skin color? Culture? Heritage?
opposite of white Smile

What do you classify white as!? ;]
And I swear, if you say "opposite of black"... >:[
opposite of.....night Twisted Evil

Damn you.

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PostSubject: Re: What would you classify Obama as   Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:52 am

Skin color.
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PostSubject: Re: What would you classify Obama as   Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:24 pm

I think hes too right wing to classify as a social democrat - Id classify him as being center to center right.

Social democrats would support (full) nationalization/socialization of health-care and education, labor courts, enforced unionization - increases in social welfare benefits, massive increases in progressive taxation, gov subsidized housing programs, non interventionism in foreign policy ect

Im not that well up on Obama's policies - to what extent does he plan on carrying out his social policies ? I know that hes not actually going to nationalize health or education. In Europe the entire health system belongs to the gov and everyone is provided with free healthcare - most universities are state owned, in some countries there are no fees - in others they are heavily subsidized depending on family income ect. The wealthy are quite heavily taxed while less well off are often tax exempt ect.
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PostSubject: Re: What would you classify Obama as   Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:55 pm

Inkus2000 wrote:
I think hes too right wing to classify as a social democrat - Id classify him as being center to center right.

Social democrats would support (full) nationalization/socialization of health-care and education, labor courts, enforced unionization - increases in social welfare benefits, massive increases in progressive taxation, gov subsidized housing programs, non interventionism in foreign policy ect

Im not that well up on Obama's policies - to what extent does he plan on carrying out his social policies ? I know that hes not actually going to nationalize health or education. In Europe the entire health system belongs to the gov and everyone is provided with free healthcare - most universities are state owned, in some countries there are no fees - in others they are heavily subsidized depending on family income ect. The wealthy are quite heavily taxed while less well off are often tax exempt ect.
many of his stance he doesn't agree with like drug laws(I believe he is against them but wants to get elected so he said hes for them) he just wants to get elected whatever helps him get elected is what hes for so its hard to say with certainty

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PostSubject: Re: What would you classify Obama as   Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:35 am

Inkus2000 wrote:
Im not that well up on Obama's policies - to what extent does he plan on carrying out his social policies ? I know that hes not actually going to nationalize health or education.

Don't count on any significant changes. Bushwa has already locked the army in to Iraq for a few years, so if Obama doesn't wanna be hassled with Iraq, all he has to say is "it's out of my hands", and the occupation continues. Besides, our "anti-war" candidate wants to attack Pakistan and increase troops in Afghanistan. Also, as soon as he locked the presidency he started conceding to the fact that he won't be pushing for change that hard (i guess he was just kidding before). For example, in his inauguration speech he said that it could take longer than a full term to achieve any of his goals.

And yes, health care, education, and the prisons will remain privatized.

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PostSubject: Re: What would you classify Obama as   Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:12 pm

Inkus2000 wrote:
I think hes too right wing to classify as a social democrat - Id classify him as being center to center right.

Social democrats would support (full) nationalization/socialization of health-care and education, labor courts, enforced unionization - increases in social welfare benefits, massive increases in progressive taxation, gov subsidized housing programs, non interventionism in foreign policy ect

Im not that well up on Obama's policies - to what extent does he plan on carrying out his social policies ? I know that hes not actually going to nationalize health or education. In Europe the entire health system belongs to the gov and everyone is provided with free healthcare - most universities are state owned, in some countries there are no fees - in others they are heavily subsidized depending on family income ect. The wealthy are quite heavily taxed while less well off are often tax exempt ect.
i think to the left he is blatantly a neo-liberal liar, but to the right he is a stalinist totalitarian.
tbh, i think they're both wrong, i would say he IS a social democrat, just a revised version. not a neo revisionist third wayer though.
maybe he's the fourth way, who knows. but his policies do include progressive taxation, and a focus on reforming capitalism to redistribute wealth more fairly, whilst at the same time trying to focus on social justice and human rights issues like closing guantanamo bay, and it is said welfare could increase (though personally i doubt it) as well as some kind of universal health care/insurance system for all citizens. soc dems however, do not abdicate full nationalisation, their philosophy states "private were possible, planning where necessary".
he does not abdicate the ending of capitalism, and he does still endorse the use of force to other countries, however, every man has some contradiction in their belief, so i'd say soc dem. though he'd never admit to it. so modern liberal. lol
ps. to that berk who said he'd describe obama as "black", what the hell?!?! as if you could class a man based on the colour of his skin over his beliefs. joke or otherwise, i find this distasteful.
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PostSubject: Re: What would you classify Obama as   Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:06 am

JackBrindelli wrote:
Inkus2000 wrote:
I think hes too right wing to classify as a social democrat - Id classify him as being center to center right.

Social democrats would support (full) nationalization/socialization of health-care and education, labor courts, enforced unionization - increases in social welfare benefits, massive increases in progressive taxation, gov subsidized housing programs, non interventionism in foreign policy ect

Im not that well up on Obama's policies - to what extent does he plan on carrying out his social policies ? I know that hes not actually going to nationalize health or education. In Europe the entire health system belongs to the gov and everyone is provided with free healthcare - most universities are state owned, in some countries there are no fees - in others they are heavily subsidized depending on family income ect. The wealthy are quite heavily taxed while less well off are often tax exempt ect.
i think to the left he is blatantly a neo-liberal liar, but to the right he is a stalinist totalitarian.
tbh, i think they're both wrong, i would say he IS a social democrat, just a revised version. not a neo revisionist third wayer though.
maybe he's the fourth way, who knows. but his policies do include progressive taxation, and a focus on reforming capitalism to redistribute wealth more fairly, whilst at the same time trying to focus on social justice and human rights issues like closing guantanamo bay, and it is said welfare could increase (though personally i doubt it) as well as some kind of universal health care/insurance system for all citizens. soc dems however, do not abdicate full nationalisation, their philosophy states "private were possible, planning where necessary".
he does not abdicate the ending of capitalism, and he does still endorse the use of force to other countries, however, every man has some contradiction in their belief, so i'd say soc dem. though he'd never admit to it. so modern liberal. lol
ps. to that berk who said he'd describe obama as "black", what the hell?!?! as if you could class a man based on the colour of his skin over his beliefs. joke or otherwise, i find this distasteful.

Modern democrat, liberal is completely different.. lol

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PostSubject: Re: What would you classify Obama as   Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:47 am

Cheveyo wrote:
Modern democrat, liberal is completely different.. lol
very well, i'd love to trade definitions here.
whats a modern liberal to you, and what's a modern democrat to you?
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PostSubject: Re: What would you classify Obama as   Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:04 pm

JackBrindelli wrote:
Cheveyo wrote:
Modern democrat, liberal is completely different.. lol
very well, i'd love to trade definitions here.
whats a modern liberal to you, and what's a modern democrat to you?

Well, there are two different ways people see "liberal". Sometimes (originally), it was used to describe capitalists. Now, it's used to describe leftists. I would describe Mike Gravel, Dennis Kucinich and Bernie Sanders as modern Democrat liberals (left Democrats). Of course, they are globally moderate. Obama is moderate in the US and conservative globally.

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PostSubject: Re: What would you classify Obama as   Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:46 pm

I'll still go with neo liberal

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PostSubject: Re: What would you classify Obama as   Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:05 pm

Cheveyo wrote:
Well, there are two different ways people see "liberal". Sometimes (originally), it was used to describe capitalists. Now, it's used to describe leftists. I would describe Mike Gravel, Dennis Kucinich and Bernie Sanders as modern Democrat liberals (left Democrats). Of course, they are globally moderate. Obama is moderate in the US and conservative globally.
all (the ones i speak to or hear of) liberals now allign themselves with democracy, so i don't really use the "democrat" name much in my classification.
i see liberalism as a kind of radicalism at first. it stood against all forms of hierachy and oppression. however, it has many flaws since it is a predominantly middle class ideology, especially classic liberalism, and so has a bias toward people with property, and ultimately some of its plans of action do nothing more than support the system. i myself dont have as many problems with modern liberals, but maybe that's just because i haven't seen them in power yet, where as the sodding neo-liberals have had the western world for about 30 years now.
that is to say not really that radical. but to define a liberal is someone who is does not believe in hierachy, top down rule, or democracy without constitution. a liberal fights for individual rights and freedoms/liberties. in theory.
different liberals have different ways of going about providing freedom. The two main breeds of liberal are modern and classic.
classic liberals believe in freedom mostly through the market, where an individual is free to express his will by buying what ever he or she chooses with his or her money. with a minimal government and state which is only there to protect basic inalienable rights such as the right to life. they are not big advocates of state intervention. this is the variety of liberal mostly associated with the Republican party. (Neo liberals are pretty much just classic liberals under a new name in case you thought i'd left them out. b*stards.)
Modern liberals on the other hand, see this as egotistical and selfish, and believe that the state should have more of a role in society to bring social justice. this is to say that if someone is poor, the government should provide them with financial support so that they no longer need worry about base needs such as food, and be freed to concentrate on self actualising and bettering themselves through education etc. they also tend to be more willing to introduce progressive tax systems, as the people at the top of the pile can afford to give more than the poor, and the poor need to receive more aid than the rich. they believe small infringements on rights can be justified if, and only if, they ultimately benefit the neediest in society. Obama, at face value seems to be a modern democrat in that respect, however, he's not taken office yet, so lets all wait and see....
ps. appologies for this definition, ive left out a lot, feel free to criticise, but i only had ten minutes.
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PostSubject: Re: What would you classify Obama as   Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:12 pm

JackBrindelli wrote:
Cheveyo wrote:
Well, there are two different ways people see "liberal". Sometimes (originally), it was used to describe capitalists. Now, it's used to describe leftists. I would describe Mike Gravel, Dennis Kucinich and Bernie Sanders as modern Democrat liberals (left Democrats). Of course, they are globally moderate. Obama is moderate in the US and conservative globally.
all (the ones i speak to or hear of) liberals now allign themselves with democracy, so i don't really use the "democrat" name much in my classification.
i see liberalism as a kind of radicalism at first. it stood against all forms of hierachy and oppression. however, it has many flaws since it is a predominantly middle class ideology, especially classic liberalism, and so has a bias toward people with property, and ultimately some of its plans of action do nothing more than support the system. i myself dont have as many problems with modern liberals, but maybe that's just because i haven't seen them in power yet, where as the sodding neo-liberals have had the western world for about 30 years now.
that is to say not really that radical. but to define a liberal is someone who is does not believe in hierachy, top down rule, or democracy without constitution. a liberal fights for individual rights and freedoms/liberties. in theory.
different liberals have different ways of going about providing freedom. The two main breeds of liberal are modern and classic.
classic liberals believe in freedom mostly through the market, where an individual is free to express his will by buying what ever he or she chooses with his or her money. with a minimal government and state which is only there to protect basic inalienable rights such as the right to life. they are not big advocates of state intervention. this is the variety of liberal mostly associated with the Republican party. (Neo liberals are pretty much just classic liberals under a new name in case you thought i'd left them out. b*stards.)
Modern liberals on the other hand, see this as egotistical and selfish, and believe that the state should have more of a role in society to bring social justice. this is to say that if someone is poor, the government should provide them with financial support so that they no longer need worry about base needs such as food, and be freed to concentrate on self actualising and bettering themselves through education etc. they also tend to be more willing to introduce progressive tax systems, as the people at the top of the pile can afford to give more than the poor, and the poor need to receive more aid than the rich. they believe small infringements on rights can be justified if, and only if, they ultimately benefit the neediest in society. Obama, at face value seems to be a modern democrat in that respect, however, he's not taken office yet, so lets all wait and see....
ps. appologies for this definition, ive left out a lot, feel free to criticise, but i only had ten minutes.
well said

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