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 Salude!!!!

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Corrbrias
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PostSubject: Re: Salude!!!!   Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:25 am

I actually think the alternative society can be built within the currently existing one, and over time can take the place of the currently existing society, and can use governmental structures to accomplish that goal, especially municipal government.
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PostSubject: Re: Salude!!!!   Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:04 pm

Corrbrias wrote:
I actually think the alternative society can be built within the currently existing one, and over time can take the place of the currently existing society, and can use governmental structures to accomplish that goal, especially municipal government.

Interesting idea... But aren't most Anarchist doing this already via communicating with each other and organizing together? Or do you literally mean things such as Anarchist communes in the middle of a Capitalistic country?

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Corrbrias
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PostSubject: Re: Salude!!!!   Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:42 pm

I mean things such as anarchist communes, anarchist workplaces, anarchist philosophical associations, anarchist consumers cooperatives, throughout capitalist society.
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OnedayIstoppedbreathing
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PostSubject: Re: Salude!!!!   Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:02 pm

Corrbrias wrote:
I mean things such as anarchist communes, anarchist workplaces, anarchist philosophical associations, anarchist consumers cooperatives, throughout capitalist society.

I wish I could join one of those!
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PostSubject: Re: Salude!!!!   Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:55 pm

Corrbrias wrote:
I mean things such as anarchist communes, anarchist workplaces, anarchist philosophical associations, anarchist consumers cooperatives, throughout capitalist society.

Thats very anti revolutionary, defeatist, and isolationist indeed. It doesnt surprise me that all of the other anarchists on this blog view your ideas as "revolutionary".
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PostSubject: Re: Salude!!!!   Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:41 pm

Corrbrias wrote:
I actually think the alternative society can be built within the currently existing one, and over time can take the place of the currently existing society, and can use governmental structures to accomplish that goal, especially municipal government.

i liked that idea at first, but i turned to more revolutionary ideas recently. im shifting a lot though, mainly because i am not that informed about these ideologies. i need to read a lot more.

but what i do think is that different models of transcition phases will lead to different social models. some will not lead to the ideal utopian anarchist society, but will lead to simmilar societies. as long as society is flawed, it will keep changing. the key is that people percieve the flaws, and that is why we need to strive for decentralized, non-coercive institutions. we need to work on spreading information, and create some kind of revolution that will lead to a better society in a short period of time, even if it doesnt lead to a "utopia".
this is why libertarian-individualist capitalism (what some call "anarcho" capitalism) is out of the question. it will eventually lead to a society in which there is enough food for everyone, and i dont doubt that, but it will take about... umm... 300 years maybe, and that still will not remove exploitation and class difference.
right now we need something which works quick and effectively, while creating as much consciousness as possible.

if there are inconsistencies in what i just typed, forgive me, im really tired.
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PostSubject: Re: Salude!!!!   Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:30 pm

test
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Corrbrias
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PostSubject: Re: Salude!!!!   Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:42 pm

What we have works quickly and effectively while creating consciousness... I don't care about efficiency I care about freedom and justice for all and I want it NOW - thats why I'm a post-anarchist.
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PostSubject: Re: Salude!!!!   Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:16 pm

Damien wrote:
Corrbrias wrote:
I mean things such as anarchist communes, anarchist workplaces, anarchist philosophical associations, anarchist consumers cooperatives, throughout capitalist society.

Thats very anti revolutionary, defeatist, and isolationist indeed. It doesnt surprise me that all of the other anarchists on this blog view your ideas as "revolutionary".

Excuse me? lol

Personally, I wouldn't want to settle for that. Our "communes" would depend on the capitalistic world in which they would be engulfed in and they would be looked upon as outcast societies. Not only that, the country that the communes would be located in would make them up to be chaotic areas via media outlets such as FOX.

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Corrbrias
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PostSubject: Re: Salude!!!!   Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:45 pm

You're totally not understanding my point. I'm not "settling" for anything, the anarchist society would eventually replace the capitalist society. The "communes" would not be in the middle of the country, they would be spread throughout the society, so people would have experience of them personally and not get all their information about them from FOX.
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PostSubject: Re: Salude!!!!   Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:20 pm

Corrbrias wrote:
You're totally not understanding my point. I'm not "settling" for anything, the anarchist society would eventually replace the capitalist society. The "communes" would not be in the middle of the country, they would be spread throughout the society, so people would have experience of them personally and not get all their information about them from FOX.

I get you. The thing is, living in a commune amongst a capitalistic society if much harder than in an Anarchist one..

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PostSubject: Re: Salude!!!!   Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:35 pm

KenCat wrote:
Damien wrote:
Corrbrias wrote:
I mean things such as anarchist communes, anarchist workplaces, anarchist philosophical associations, anarchist consumers cooperatives, throughout capitalist society.

Thats very anti revolutionary, defeatist, and isolationist indeed. It doesnt surprise me that all of the other anarchists on this blog view your ideas as "revolutionary".

Excuse me? lol

Personally, I wouldn't want to settle for that. Our "communes" would depend on the capitalistic world in which they would be engulfed in and they would be looked upon as outcast societies. Not only that, the country that the communes would be located in would make them up to be chaotic areas via media outlets such as FOX.

Its not even just that dude. Again, in order to make this world a better place millions of people have to be mobilized and organized. I dont know what country you guys reside in, but in the US it would be utterly ridiculous for any one to advocate building a commune when obviously rebuilding the left should be the first priority on every serious revolutionary's mind - be it anarchist or revolutionary socialist. Labor union membership in the private sector is at a staggering 7%!!!!! Theres no antiwar movement, no anti racist or pro abortion movement or anything. So obviously we need to start rebuilding these movements first before we can even start thinking about something ridiculous like building some sort of commune enclave. I mean, is that even feasiible without being disconnected from the masses of people???

When you guys advocate building a commune, all youre doing is abandoning mass struggle. The changing of the world depends on the mass mobilization of hundreds of thousands of people from all walks of life again. Right now we need fighting leftist organizations, not just in the US but all around the world. The right is resurging in Europe. There are some town councils in the UK that are now openly letting fascists serve in them!!!! Look at Italy and the rise of the right wing Berlusconi government. What about France, where the right is also rising. Look at Sweden where theres an openly racist, anti immigrant party winning seats in parliament as we speak. Dont you guys see this??? What the hell is some independent commune gonna do???? Thats crazy. We need to be combating the rise of the right right now, and rebuilding the left. This is gonna take the participation of as many people as possible. Taking that into consideration, this is not the time to try and establish some independent enclave with ridiculous utopian ideas disconnected from the whole population. Its just utterly ridiculous to even be thinking that way right now. Are any of you even in organizations right now???
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Corrbrias
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PostSubject: Re: Salude!!!!   Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:55 pm

I'm not the one who first mentioned building a commune, its not all about communes, theres lots of other things we can do too. I am entirely in favor of rebuilding the left, but how are you going to accomplish that? Is it even feasible without helping people directly, to give them a reason to believe in our ideology? Take the religious right for example, they have thousands of followers, and its not because those people hate gays or whatever, its because their churches play an important part in their lives, and give them something to believe in. I'm not advocating building an enclave, I'm advocating building commuities! Communities that already exist, but need to be organized! Only when we do organize them can we have a mass struggle.
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